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Episode 107

The CTV Hype Cycle: Separating Fact from Fiction

CTV ad revenue is projected to reach $28 billion this year, but 39% of advertisers still cite transparency in ad placements as a major concern. Is Connected TV delivering on its promises or falling short?

This episode, Elena and Angela are joined by Chief Media Officer Catherine Walstad to discuss the state of CTV advertising. They explore the maturing optimism around streaming TV and share practical advice for navigating this complex but essential channel. Learn why CTV shouldn't be viewed as either brand or performance marketing, but as a powerful complement to linear TV.

Topics Covered

• [01:00] CTV usage and ad spend projections through 2026

• [03:30] Current marketing sentiment around CTV advertising

• [06:00] Defining CTV, OTT, and streaming terminology

• [09:00] Is CTV delivering on its ROI promises?

• [11:00] CTV's role in both brand and performance marketing

• [18:00] Why CTV advertising has high CPMs and hidden costs

• [21:00] CTV measurement challenges and solutions

• [27:00] How fragmentation impacts advertisers and viewers

• [29:30] Emerging CTV trends like shoppable and interactive ads

Resources:

2025 eMarketer Article

2025 Ad Exchanger Article

Today's Hosts

Elena Jasper

Chief Marketing Officer

Catherine Walstad

Chief Media Officer

Angela Voss

Chief Executive Officer

Transcript

Catherine: Marketers need partners that offer better, more direct and efficient buying strategies. They need partners that can intelligently design a test that's got clear measurements and good measurements, multiple models that can be tied directly to business outcomes.

Elena: Hello, and welcome to the Marketing Architects, a research first podcast dedicated to answering your toughest marketing questions. I'm Elena Jasper. I run the marketing team here at Marketing Architects, and I'm joined by my co-host, Angela Voss, the CEO of Marketing Architects.

Angela: Hello.

Elena: And we're joined by a special guest, our chief media officer, Catherine Walstad.

Catherine: Hello.

Angela: Thanks for joining us, Catherine.

Catherine: Yeah. Thanks for having me. It's been a while. I think it's been maybe a year since I've been on this.

Angela: So much has changed in the CTV world in just one year.

Catherine: Yeah.

Elena: Yeah, we're going to talk all about that today. We are back with our thoughts on some recent marketing news, always trying to root our opinions and data research and what drives business results. Today, Catherine is joining us to talk about CTV, otherwise known as connected TV, sometimes known as streaming TV.

And we are going to talk about those confusing labels in a little bit. It has been a hot topic in advertising for years. It's growing fast, promising better targeting. Superior measurement, basically the power of TV with digital precision. But is CTV the best of TV or an overpriced, overhyped mess? We're going to get into all of it today, but let's start as we always do with some research.

First some quick stats from Remarketer to set the stage. Average CTV usage in the U.S. is projected to nearly double from 1 hour and 22 minutes in 2020 to 2 hours and 37 minutes in 2026. 61 percent of advertisers plan to increase their CTV ad spend. by 2026, nearly 70 percent of the U.S. population will be CTV users.

Fragmentation and too many providers is a top concern for marketers, with 39 percent of CTV and OTT advertisers citing transparency in ad placements as an issue per an Advertiser Perception Study. And speaking of transparency, I also wanted to mention an article from Ad Exchanger's Alyssa Boyle. This is titled, CTV Buyers Say CTV's Transparency Problem Remains a Roadblock to Investment. She writes that when brands buy ads on streaming platforms, they often don't know exactly where their ads are running. like Paramount and NBCU bundle their inventory, which means a buyer could be paying premium prices, expecting to be on Paramount but a chunk of their ads might end up on Pluto TV.

And they didn't find out until after the fact. This is programmatic buyers who need detailed reporting to justify budgets, but publishers, they have little incentive to change because bundling helps them sell less desirable inventory by packaging it with premium spots. Some buyers are pushing back, but publishers argue that privacy concerns and inventory scarcity make transparency tricky. Alyssa thinks that without more visibility into where ads are running, advertisers might start looking elsewhere, whether that's retail media, social, or linear TV. If publishers don't address this soon, CTV's explosive growth could hit a wall. So it wasn't easy to pick an article today because there's a lot of different articles about CTV right now, and I'd say the sentiments in those articles are wide ranging.

There's still a lot of enthusiasm, but also kind of more like this that are articles that are a little more critical. So Ange, I asked you the same opening question about a year ago, the last time we had a CTV focused episode, which is what do you think the marketing sentiment around CTV is today? If we think about kind of that, that hype cycle, are we in the trough of disillusionment? Are we moving into the slope of enlightenment? Where do you think we are?

Angela: I don't know that any of those labels perfectly fit my mindset and the mindset that I get, I think from talking to prospects and talking to clients. To me, it feels like we're in a bit of like maturing optimism. Coming out of COVID at a time when the channel grew so much, we were maybe in the high school phase of CTV, just sort of like blindly optimistic about life, not yet mature enough to understand the realities of the space.

And I think on the positive side, on the positive side of sentiment, I do think there's continued optimism, bullishness due to just consumer adoption and some of the numbers that you talked about there in terms of how the space is going to grow. I think folks are excited about improved capabilities in, in targeting and attribution and cross channel management.

And measurement through CTV, especially compared to linear TV. I think that new ad formats are exciting, interactive ads, dynamic, creative optimization, generate excitement and fresh opportunities for brands to engage consumers. So I think that's all on the good side. I think there's new awareness, increased awareness around areas of caution.

And challenges complexity in fragmentation creates frustration. Across platforms. You spoke to some of that, Elena, complicated tech stacks, measurement inconsistencies, opaque ad inventories are all frustrating for marketers. I also feel that there's economic uncertainty. And so there's more budget scrutiny and ROI pressure maybe than brands were dealing with previously.

And then inventory, premium inventory concerns, high CPMs and some opacity around programmatic CTV buys have marketers seeking that greater transparency, which I know we'll get into in a little bit here,

Elena: Catherine, what about you? What do you

Catherine: Yeah, I mean, I, think a lot of what Ange said resonates with me too. And, when I think about the sentiment. I think it, you know, it's evolving. Initially, there was all of this excitement about the amazing content that you can get access to, the cool targeting capabilities that it's like digital when it comes to measurement.

And then marketers hit this like reality check. Listen, it's not as trackable as digital. It's expensive. The targeting is not all it's hyped up to be and measurement is hard. And right now I'd say that we're I loved the words that you used to describe. Where we are at Elena. I think we're moving out of that trough of disillusionment disillusionment and onto that slope of enlightenment where brands are changing their expectations.

They're better understanding how to use CTV in that media mix. They're not just doing it because of the hype and they're finding smarter ways to buy and measure it.

Elena: I agree. It feels like marketers are starting to ask like the important questions when they're thinking about investing in CTV, rather than just blindly jumping into it. But before we get too far into the episode today, I want to return to what I mentioned in the intro about the different kinds of CTV terms, because they're pretty confusing.

We got CTV, otherwise known as connected TV, streaming TV, OTT, Catherine, could you walk us through just these different terms that marketers use to describe streaming television? Maybe what kind of inventory we purchase as an agency and then how we've chosen to define it.

Catherine: Yeah, I feel like there could be a class on the different terms that are used in this space. I mean, it is confusing because marketers will use terms like CTV, OTT, streaming TV, digital video, it's all done interchangeably.

I'm not going to claim to have, be the dictionary when it comes to digital, but. Here's how I define You've got OTT, so that's over the top. And that to a delivery method. It's content that is delivered over the internet without a traditional cable or satellite subscription. It's what I'd call like the umbrella term for video delivered to any connected device, whether that be a screen on your wall.

smartphone, your tablet, or your laptop. And then you've got connected TV, CTV referring, I think specifically to streaming content that you're watching on an actual TV. That's your screen on the wall and it's delivered via OTT. We personally buy across multiple inventory types. We do it programmatically through our DSP Anika that has direct pipes into our media partners, which include hundreds of publishers.

supply side platforms, free ad supported TV channels, ad supported video on demand. We might occasionally do a direct deal with publishers and streamers if a client objective requires it. So think Amazon, Netflix, Hulu, our approach really. Tries to prioritize quality efficiency and scale. So it's really less about the type of inventory we go by and more about the results and outcomes that are driven by it. So we focus on cutting out those middlemen, eliminating fees, minimizing tech taxes, and, trying to optimize pricing across the entire gamut of inventory sources.

Elena: For me, the part of the definitions that's confusing is OTT and CTV, there are more labels for how content is delivered, but people use them as catch alls. Like, especially CTV, it felt like was really, really popular. Now, streaming is more popular, but people use it as like a catch all term, when technically, like, the true definition is, a delivery mechanism, but people don't really use it that way.

So it can get, it can get, a little bit confusing. I wanted to zoom out a little bit and ask probably like the, one of the most important questions about CTV, which is from a business perspective, do you think that it's delivering on its promise? So are brands seeing the ROI that, that they need, that they expect?

Catherine: So, I think it's winning in some areas for sure, right? CTV is winning the incremental reach game, at least for our clients. It's delivering audiences that traditional linear television can't or isn't. I think it's challenged, though, by the misconception that it can function just like digital, that it's fully trackable, that it's cost efficient and highly attributable when in reality, it's not.

We have major measurement gaps. You've got, walled gardens, high CPMs that have made tracking immediate ROI really tricky. And I think the brands and agencies are just marketers in general that are seeing the strongest returns in this channel are optimizing their creative for that environment with short, really engaging formats, they're.

yeah. Working hard to control costs by buying programmatically as directly as possible. They're using smarter measurement models to gauge impact beyond that. Last click metric that digital marketers are so fond of. And so I think. The CTV is definitely delivering value, but the brands that are seeing the best ROI are the ones that are taking that time to test. They're learning and they're embracing it for what it actually is versus what it's been hyped up to be. So that's kind of where my thoughts are on it.

Elena: That's funny that right now, like, what got everyone so excited about CTV, a lot of the reason was because of the performance. It's just like digital, but now it's almost being punished by that same hype that got everybody running to it. So let's talk about that. There's this debate about what C, what role CTV should play in your media mix.

You mentioned, like, it's essential because you've got audience now that you can't reach. through linear alone. So it feels like if you're a TV advertiser, you should be there. But what do you think is CTV? Is it better for performance? Like we originally talked about it as, or more for brand building for both, what do you think?

Catherine: One of my biggest pet peeves is when I hear marketers describe CTV as only, only good for brand. And it's just, it's. That's so short sighted. It is absolutely, you can use it for both and we have seen what you can do if you're focusing on both brand marketers, of course, love it because you're extending the power of television storytelling to new screens and households that you couldn't reach before. And then you've got your performance marketers who so badly want to be there and do it, but don't think maybe they can afford it,

the ones that try it and test and learn, and they can figure out the smart buying, they can buy programmatically and or work with a partner that has an optimized supply path that can help control those costs and improve performance. When you pair it with linear, it can be a really powerful way to increase unique reach and have big business impacts.

I just, I don't feel like it has to be either, or I think it can do both. You can certainly have more of a brand focus for your CTV campaigns, but absolutely performance marketers like, come on in. We, we've, you know, it works.

Angela: Yeah, agree. And I feel like maybe that's sort of residual hangover from linear. There's still a ton of marketers out there that don't feel linear can be measurable either, but with new tech, like ACR, et cetera, there are advantages in that space from a measurement perspective that just didn't exist years ago.

And I agree with you that like when you can. Pair these two together, linear and CTV, really create this competitive advantage that I feel really no other medium can match, right? Linear's got this unparalleled opportunity to build just massive awareness, drive that broad reach scale, lays the foundation for brand fame.

It's this broad audience delivery. You've got proven credibility. Just translates into rapid category awareness and consumers trust it's it says to your market. We're credible. We're established. We're here to stay. And then CTV really complements that by injecting more precision and agility and measurability into the equation and enables the marketers to.

Efficiently extend reach into those underserved segments, either reaching cord cutters or, perhaps younger demographics. And so when, when we can use these 2 together, these channels don't just add incremental benefit. They really multiply that impact, the scale and credibility of linear TV combined with that. Precision and agility of CTV in campaigns that, just simultaneously build long term brand equity and drive that short term performance out of both channels.

Elena: I feel guilty even asking the brand versus performance question, cause I know it's not a helpful question, but it is something that comes up for people. So I feel like I have to ask it, but I think that we'd say like what you said, Ange, about like the multiplying effect, we feel that way for branded performance too.

We're fans of like works research about, you know, it's brand times performance. They work together, like trying to separate them isn't helpful. However, I felt like we needed to talk about it because I'm not sure if there's another marketing channel that has such different expectations on it, depending on who you talk to.

Like, it's really interesting. Like we talked to brands that are all different sizes, all different phases. You almost can't predict who will come in and like what view they'll have on TV, like linear and CTV, because sometimes smaller brands, like more startups see it as more of a brand channel. Sometimes bigger brands see it as performance.

Like it's, I know it depends on like your brand on your, in your category, but it is sort of interesting how. You could have just a completely different expectation of what this is supposed to do for you. I was trying to think of an analogy, but I, I couldn't, but it's kind of, it makes it fun. I suppose. One thing I want to talk more about, I know we're kind of dancing around it.

Is this CTV? Like is like digital or CTV equals TV, like digital. I know we covered a little bit, but, we hear that a lot that CTV is going to be trackable, you know, hyper targeted, but what do we think? I know we covered it a little bit, but Catherine, is that actually. Is that true at all?

Catherine: I mean, I think CTV definitely has digital like capabilities, but it is not the same as digital. This is probably going to be unpopular or make me very unpopular, but I feel like hyper targeting should be renamed, in my opinion, targeting hype because in our experience. It's inaccurate and the cost almost always outweighs the benefit.

We have heard horror stories about high priced, hyper targeted campaigns that hit literally everyone except the intended target or the intended audience. I literally the other day downloaded my Adobe audience profile. If you guys haven't done it, let's do it. It's hilarious. It was 270 pages of absolute garbage.

So if I were to believe what was in these pages, apparently I am a 19 to 85 year old man and woman. That is a billionaire extreme couponer. Child free parent, risk averse daredevil who loves electric vehicles, but is also a diesel truck enthusiast.

Angela: It's just you have to laugh because we will cry

Catherine: That's

Angela: don't laugh

Catherine: So, okay, so that's a challenge right there, right? Obviously. Another challenge is identity, which goes literally hand in hand with this. Cookies don't exist in CTV, so it's important to have an identity solution and use things like ACR to better understand what households are actually seeing these ads.

I think another challenge clearly is attribution. Lots of agencies and publishers. Love to grade their own homework with one model. We educate our clients to pay attention to how tests are designed and to use multiple measurement models so that you can get believable and defensible outcomes.

Elena: Yeah, and we are going to talk more about CTV measurement in a bit because that is a very large topic. But one other kind of common complaint I want to cover is that CTV is expensive. It's often more expensive than linear on a CPM basis. And I know that price was a driving force behind the decisions we made, building our own DSP.

Catherine mentioned that in the beginning, we know all the costs associated with it, which can make reaching performance goals, really any goals really different, really difficult. So Catherine, why is CTV so expensive?

Catherine: It is expensive. CPMs are high because it's, now listen, perceived as having limited supply inventory with high demand. The dirty little secret is though, guys, there is a ton of unsold inventory out there. That is not where the true costs are coming from. Those costs are coming from Tech layers, so you've got supply side platforms, demand side platforms, verification tools, brand safety, their hands are all in the pot.

Trying to get their fees. You also, I mean, the content is expensive, right? From these networks and streaming providers, they have to cover their costs. So that is driving up CPM as well. And then of course the targeting fees that we've already talked about, and that's why we built Anika. We wanted to eliminate those unnecessary fees that are driving absolutely no additional value to the marketer and optimize costs so that brands can actually hit their performance goals.

Elena: Wow. That's, almost worthy of a contrarian corner sound. We used to do these like contrarian corners and we had like a pretty cool noise. But, when I read about like the transparency issues, the pricing issues, a lot of times, like the conclusion of the articles is inventory restrictions. So you're, saying that that's not really the case. That's kind of an excuse.

Angela: Well and haven't all we all experience the frequency debacle in that space where you just see the same ad Repeatedly, so it shows up when you're watching TV that's not the really that's not the reality.

Elena: you're right. That's like a perspective. anybody can have just getting hit with the same ad over and over again. One thing I want to talk about was brand spending just small amounts on CTV. I've seen this more and more. They're using it as kind of a supplemental part. Of their video mix. Maybe they're just using it for retargeting, but not as commonly as like a big portion of their video budgets where, you know, linear TV could typically be the king or queen of your, marketing mix.

So why is that? Is it just high prices or like, what do you think are the biggest barriers to scale on CTV?

Catherine: Definitely cost, I mean, that's at the top of the list. I think at least for our clients, it has been in the past until until we've come into the picture partnered up. Fragmentation is definitely something, you know, term that you hear.

A lot of people talk about in the industry, measurement challenges. Of course. Right? We thought that it was going to be just like digital, but. It hasn't been, it is difficult still to measure, maybe a little bit easier than linear, but still not great. And I think that kind of keeps it from getting those bigger budgets, but still, we're seeing more and more spending every year.

I mean, you can just read your marketer and see that happening, but I think to scale, marketers need partners that offer better, more direct and efficient buying strategies. They need partners that can intelligently design a test. That's got clear measurements, and good measurements, multiple models that can be tied directly to business outcomes.

I mean, I think that's kind of what it comes down to. So there definitely are still barriers, but even seeing that, I think all marketers know that they need to be there in some way, shape or form. It's a matter of how they do it and how much of their budget they allocate to it.

Elena: Well, let's talk about measurement because it's a big topic. And I know that you're passionate about this. What do marketers need to watch out for when it comes to CTV measurement?

Angela: Yeah, I think a couple of things come to mind. It's a really complicated space. Like you just spend a lot of time in the space to really understand what's going on. But some of the biggest areas are related to IP based attribution, super convenient. Everyone was excited about it. It's going to bring accountability to a top of funnel channel.

The problem is it often overstates performance because we have wide device graphs that mistakenly attribute household activity as ad driven conversions. And so, from a marketer's measurement perspective, we should be thinking about complementing the, this doesn't mean we shouldn't look at it, but complementing it with incremental lift studies, holdout testing.

We do this through something we call ghost bidding, where we take a percentage of lost bids and bucket them, that becomes the holdout group, or match market experiments also. Can be another method, to more clearly delineate true causality from just coincidental correlation, revealing whether or not the campaign strategy, the targeting lines, et cetera, truly drive the incremental consumer behavior that you're after.

Additionally, related to bundling that we've talked about, demand transparency around where your CTV impressions are running too often premium CTV inventory is being bundled with lower quality digital placements. This could be. Display, it could be mobile ads, which inflate total impressions, but provide minimal value.

And so we need to think about insisting on explicit line item detail in medium plans, clearly separating true CTV inventory from other digital placements and that those placements might work, but we just need to understand kind of what the incrementality of them are. And then we've talked about this too, but often when prospects come aboard, working with us and begin buying through our own DSP that we built, they have previously experienced scenarios in which that bundled low quality inventory is used to lower overall CPMs.

And so a lot of times when you hear marketers talking about, well, we've got, you know, we've taken 35 CPMs or worse and dropped them down to 10, that's how they're doing that. And so just be aware of those artificially low. They typically reflect that diluted premium inventory with placements that are unlikely to drive meaningful outcomes.

Catherine: I think that plus, I've mentioned this already a couple of times, agencies, watch out, watch out for the agencies and publishers that are grading their own homework, um, that have those flawed, single threaded measurement strategies. Beware, right? Frequency tracking is another one.

We've touched on here a little bit. CTV measurement does not. Always deduplicate across platforms, depending on how you're going out there and buying. So be aware of that. Walled gardens, those can be tough. Right? They don't necessarily provide you with a whole lot of data or transparency of any kind.

So our advice is if you're thinking about going and buying media from those types of places, and you can't get good data, you might want to just walk away and not buy it. And then Ange mentioned this IP. Yeah, it's flawed. And it's imperfect, but it's one of the things we have.

Angela: hmm.

Catherine: And to her point, you can pair that with other, types of targeting or excuse me, measurement strategies, that can help you get confident results after the fact, that can help you feel good about, the results and the performance of the channel.

Elena: Yeah, I think this, this one's so hard for marketers because it's so complex. I don't understand exactly how to go about measuring CTV, but I think if you're a marketer and you're looking for a partner that's going to buy CTV or who's going to measure it for you, it might be good to re listen to that and maybe ask a couple of those questions.

I feel like you get a pretty good idea. And I want to go back to that article we opened with from ad exchanger, because transparency, it's a very popular word, just in advertising in general right now, I'd say, but especially in CTV. So Catherine, how big of a problem is CTV transparency?

Catherine: can be a pretty big problem if you're not working with the right partner. A lot of brands don't know where they're, what they're actually buying today, or what they're actually getting. There's a lot of reselling of inventory that goes on in that space. So you can be buying a lot of 2nd hand inventory at a markup. We talked already about hidden fees from those intermediaries or those middlemen that are in that, the tech supply chain.

And you mentioned this lack of log level data for visibility of where the ads are actually landing. I think, it's important to demand transparency, where you can, or with, the part media partners that you can, our approach obviously was to go out and build our own DSP, that has direct publisher relationships, and we pair that with.

Our own supply path optimization strategies to minimize those hidden costs and increase the accountability of the media. So we know where things are running. We know where the inventory is coming from and where our clients ads are. being seen

Angela: Well, and I think it's important from a measurement perspective, but even just from a brand safety perspective to, the digital space is super complex and it's so complex that perhaps when marketers are coming into CTV, they think of it. As a channel that is, is almost impossible to try to track all of that, but we're moving into a top of funnel channel where there is additional tech that allows us to get greater insight or to your point, those supplier relationships and, and being direct to source and as many instances as possible is, is super important.

Elena: Yeah, I think part of it's hard because if marketers are looking at CTV more like digital, there hasn't really been a lot of scrutiny in the past on digital transparency. So, which there should be more, but maybe that's part of like the reason why, because it's just like a different mindset when you're thinking of a channel like, like digital.

But one topic that usually comes fragmentation because There's so many different CTV platforms, there's different ways to transact with them. So Catherine, could you walk us through what the fragmentation in CTV looks like today and then how it impacts advertisers that are trying to buy it effectively,

Catherine: there's so many platforms and ways to buy. And this is not just from a buyer perspective. It's from a viewing perspective to like, can I just, where can I watch my shows, people,

Elena: everywhere?

Catherine: right? I know. Or what if I just want to find something to watch? I have to go through like 10 apps to do it. It's kind of annoying. Anyway, we're back to how you buy, we talked through some of these definitions earlier. You've got, Yeah. ad supported video on demand platforms, like. The Hulu's of the world. You've got premium networks, like NBC universal, Disney, free ad supported channels, like, Pluto to be there apps, direct publisher deals.

You can go broker. You can buy through programmatic exchanges. You can use a DSP. That Kind of cool, right? Cause you've got optionality, but the challenge with that is for us, at least today, that hasn't been figured out yet. There is no universal measurement standard. You've got a high risk of duplication because you've got multiple providers selling the same inventory.

Sometimes, you know, the publishers. Selling their own inventory multiple different ways. So even if you're going directly to them, you could be landing in the same programming through, through those buys, which leads into the next issue, which is uncontrolled frequency. I think we've all seen. That happened ourselves of where it's the same ad every sink and break, or sometimes the same ad back to back in the same break, which can be super annoying.

And then, campaign execution can be really complicated for a marketer. And I think really at the key at the end of the day is. either having your own great publisher relationships and smart tech and data, or partnering with someone who has access to all those things to help get around all those challenges.

Elena: So do you think, like, should brands test all of them? Like, I know you like kind of this direct relationship, like, do you think that's kind of the best way to buy CTV?

Catherine: I mean, honestly, I think to avoid having to go out and make really costly mistakes, finding a partner that has figured it out already is probably the best way to go. I think otherwise, you can end up spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars going out and testing all these different things and making all the same mistakes that the marketers have been making the last several years in this space. So, I think that's really it, like, partner with somebody that knows what they're doing. And that has done all the testing and, research and has the good solutions in place.

Elena: Ange mentioned in the beginning that CTV has changed a lot. I mean, I can't believe we waited a year to like recover it in detail, but you see kind of all these trends firsthand as our chief media officer, what do you think is like the biggest shift happening in CTV right now that marketers. You know, may not know of, but should be paying attention to.

Catherine: A couple of things that. I'm seeing that are really fun are things like retail media and commerce integration. So these shoppable ad units, I I mean, I don't know how well they're working, but it's fun to see that marketers are experimenting with that.

I've seen. An increase in interactive ad units to not just shoppable, but interactive. So the other day I caught a James Hardy ad that's allowed me to visualize their product on my house through a carousel of images that I can control with my remote. I'm like, well, this is cool. Again, not necessarily. I'm a nerd.

So I stopped to do it because that's my job, but I, will see how that type of stuff, actually resonates engages, actual. Consumers, I think we're gonna keep seeing identity resolution improvements with, new solutions for cross device attribution. Of course. Every day that goes by, we're seeing better data and measurements.

So I think that will continue to improve. And then I think, again, as more inventory and optionality continues to come into play, and you've got media players continuing to struggle with profitability, I think MNA and consolidation is going to keep. happening, you may read about it at least weekly, probably those prices in CTV are going to continue to fall.

Elena: So before we wrap up here, I want to make sure we cover just all the controversial CTV topics that we possibly can. So is there a myth or misconception about CTV buying that you hear a lot, but you think is just totally wrong?

Catherine: the biggest one that we hear the most frequently from prospects and clients is it's, it's too expensive to be a viable investment. And the reality is, the real cost again comes from we've, I've said, you've heard this from me already a few times comes from those middlemen, the hidden fees and inefficient buying practices or strategies, brands and agencies that partner with buyers who can.

Access inventory through an optimized supply path, negotiate really smart deals and use data driven buying, strategies can make CTV a really cost effective and scalable channel. We're seeing that with our clients through Anika and we're really excited about it.

Angela: The other one that stands out to me, Catherine, is just the, the assumption that CTV is, is just digital advertising on a bigger screen.

Catherine: Mm hmm. Mm

Angela: The lack of understanding of how fundamentally different it is. It's got this lean back experience and the mass reach of traditional TV, with additional precision and addressability, but the viewing habits at effectiveness, measurement, user expectations, Forms of effective creative all different.

Catherine: hmm.

Elena: The one that still grinds my gears, which probably will for years to come, is the like linear is dead myth, because actually, yeah, I know, it's oldie but a goodie.

Catherine: I can't.

Elena: I actually think it's really damaging because you have. A lot of brands and marketers that just won't even consider linear. And I think that is so unproductive, even like pitting them against each other in general is unproductive because you should really be looking at both.

And like TV in general. And where is my audience watching like marketers? They have, we have kind of like, we have weird, well, every industry, I guess, has biases like, you know, my audience isn't watching that or they're watching this, or that's not as valuable as this. It's like, all right, someone's sitting in their living room and they're seeing your spot on the TV.

As long as you're reaching your audience, like putting your spot in front of them, why do you care that it's on linear like versus connected television? So it just seems like kind of a silly, silly debate, but why don't we end here with something fun? Cause Catherine, you are a coworker that I think always has a great TV show to recommend.

You probably would win that award at Marketing Architects, I think. I'm like, who knows what to watch? So what's the latest and greatest thing that you're watching?

Catherine: I'm the media person, so I'm not, I can't narrow it down to one. So sorry, I'm going to maybe steal your Thunder Girls, but I need to give love to all my favorite platforms. So I'm going to give you a few. All right. Paradise on Hulu, unless you're completely freaked out by apocalyptic end of the world type stuff. It's an awesome show. Running Point is a great comedy on Netflix, and Missing You is a great Brit crime show on Netflix, so check those two out. And then, of course, spectacularly weird White Lotus on Max, like, you can't, you gotta

Angela: The first couple episodes were okay good I got I'm a little behind but I was really trying to push through like episodes two and three

Catherine: Yeah, no, it's worth it. Keep pushing.

Angela: Alright.

Elena: Yeah. Also, Catherine, I started watching Paradise because of you, and I really like it. So that was a great not a lot of people know about it, but it's a great recommendation. Yes,

Catherine: Good, I'm glad you like it. Awesome.

Angela: My turn? Okay, I'm a docu series lover, so this is a bit dark. but devil in the Family, The Fall of Ruby Frankie. Yes! God.

Elena: Is that Hu is that Hulu, or where is

Angela: It's on Disney Plus, and it's on Disney Plus. Like, why is

Elena: Oh. That's a surprise I would

Angela: and Hulu. I know, I know. Yeah.

Elena: makes more sense

Angela: Yeah, yeah, but, oh man. It's just that, like, train wreck that you, like, can't look away from. Ugh,

Catherine: Yeah, it's a goodie. What

Angela: Yeah. What about you,

Elena: I've, I'm gonna go just, I don't, I think this is a pretty mainstream run, but Severance, I think, might be the, like, one of the best TV shows of all time, and if you haven't watched Severance, you definitely should, and I started watching it this year, and I feel so bad for people that watched Season 1 back in, like, 2022 or whenever it came out and had to wait.

Three years! I'm like the biggest cliffhanger ever at the end of that last episode. But now I'm really nervous because the finale, I think when people hear this, the finale will be out. And I'm like, are they gonna leave us on another cliffhanger and take three more years? Everyone's gonna look so old, like we gotta, come on, we gotta crank out those shows. But it's so

Angela: Hard part. Yeah. It is nice, like, when you can binge watch them. It's hard for me to, like, with White Lotus right now.

Elena: Hard

Angela: Like, yeah! Like, what's happened to me? It's only a week! I mean, get it together!

Elena: by like, online content.

Catherine: Uh huh.

completely ruined.

Elena: But it's still kind of fun to wait, I

Catherine: Yeah, it is. Elena, I have tried Severance three times. Please

Elena: Catherine, you have to get through the first few episodes of Season 1. They're so boring. You're gonna want to die, but you have to get through them. And it gets better. You just I know, my mom quit too. You gotta stick with it. It's so good, but it's really slow at the beginning. But each episode actually gets shorter as you go. Like, time wise, it gets shorter and more exciting. in Season 1. And Season 2 is a lot quicker from the jump, I would say.

Catherine: I'll commit to a fourth try, but I'm telling you

Elena: That's the most common thing about Severance. Yeah, it's tough. Okay. tough, but you gotta get through it.

Catherine: All right. I'll try.

Elena: All right, Catherine, thanks so much for joining us. Let's

Catherine: Thanks for having me. It was fun. Ladies. Let's do it again.

Angela: Absolutely.